This thread compiles all the most important interrelations (and occasional conflicts) between the standard canon of City Of Heroes and City Of Villains with the canon of Saint Joseph School.
Many of these come from the simple fact that SJS students are teenagers, or because there are restrictions placed upon students by the administration. Others are listed because they have been tried and failed by several players in SJS (sometimes with disastrous consequences), and the community is no longer interested in continued experiments with canon-bending.
The list below will be further explained in individual posts on this thread. You may click on the list below to jump to the explanatory post for that topic.
Day Jobs. Students at SJS should not have careers or real jobs. The "day jobs" feature of i13 should be kept OOC.
Influence. Influence is not money. So how do you buy a slice of pizza?
Issues (Game Updates): While the events of new Issues are treated IC, many specific elements or game features are not.
Kheldians. Do not roll up a Peacebringer or Warshade unless you intend to play a Kheldian.
Missions: the Contact Web. Most missions are easy to play IC, but unique missions are clearly not.
Missions: Zone. Story arcs tied to specific zones are often unique, so may be difficult or impossible to play IC.
Money. Influence is not money. So how do you buy a slice of pizza?
Ouroboros. Yes, the Menders exist and you can help them fix broken timelines. You cannot kill your own father.
Security Level (or SL). Security Clearances are overseen by the Federal Bureau for Super-powered Affairs (FBSA), and do not affect your standing as a minor or as a student at SJS.
Vanguard. You cannot actually join the Vanguard, no matter what the Badge says.
Wentworth's. Think of it like eBay, not like a trust fund.
If you have an idea for something that should be added to this list, please PM me.
CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Moderator: Student Council
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Day Jobs
Members of SJS should not have day jobs or careers. It is simply unreasonable to roleplay that SJS students are doctors, or city officials, or police officers or anything else. The only "day job" that SJS students should have is being a high school student, and we roleplay that already.
The "day jobs" feature of i13 should be kept OOC. If you are interested in having your student get an internship or something like that, then it should be handled as it always has been: as a storyline. It should not be connected in any way to where you log out or what badges you have.
Members of SJS should not have day jobs or careers. It is simply unreasonable to roleplay that SJS students are doctors, or city officials, or police officers or anything else. The only "day job" that SJS students should have is being a high school student, and we roleplay that already.
The "day jobs" feature of i13 should be kept OOC. If you are interested in having your student get an internship or something like that, then it should be handled as it always has been: as a storyline. It should not be connected in any way to where you log out or what badges you have.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Kheldians
Kheldians are often referred to as an archetype in City of Heroes, but that is a deceptive term for something more complicated. Kheldians are not as wide-ranging as Blasters, Tankers or any other archetype: there are not different powersets within the Peacebringer and Warshade ATs. Kheldians are a specific entity in the CoX canon: alien symbionts composed of energy, who "join" with corporeal lifeforms, creating a unique new individual. Divided into Peacebringers and Warshades, they have their own story arcs dedicated to their backstory and the future of the Kheldians on Earth.
Because of this, we have occasionally had complaints about characters who are the Kheldian AT but they do not wish to be Kheldians in roleplay. Generally speaking, the idea that a character is not a Kheldian lasts until the moment that they assume Dwarf or Nova form, when the illusion is ruined. While many Kheldian powers might be justified as another kind of power, their memory forms mark the toon firmly as a Kheldian.
If you do not want to be a Kheldian, please do not play a Peacebringer or Warshade. It's just that simple. With special permission from the interviewer, human-form only "I'm-not-really-a-Kheldian" characters can be considered, but they are not recommended.
You can learn more about Kheldians here.
Kheldians are often referred to as an archetype in City of Heroes, but that is a deceptive term for something more complicated. Kheldians are not as wide-ranging as Blasters, Tankers or any other archetype: there are not different powersets within the Peacebringer and Warshade ATs. Kheldians are a specific entity in the CoX canon: alien symbionts composed of energy, who "join" with corporeal lifeforms, creating a unique new individual. Divided into Peacebringers and Warshades, they have their own story arcs dedicated to their backstory and the future of the Kheldians on Earth.
Because of this, we have occasionally had complaints about characters who are the Kheldian AT but they do not wish to be Kheldians in roleplay. Generally speaking, the idea that a character is not a Kheldian lasts until the moment that they assume Dwarf or Nova form, when the illusion is ruined. While many Kheldian powers might be justified as another kind of power, their memory forms mark the toon firmly as a Kheldian.
If you do not want to be a Kheldian, please do not play a Peacebringer or Warshade. It's just that simple. With special permission from the interviewer, human-form only "I'm-not-really-a-Kheldian" characters can be considered, but they are not recommended.
You can learn more about Kheldians here.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Wentworth's
Wentworth's is a highly successful consignment house with many stores in Paragon City. For ease of the setting, it is assumed that students can buy and sell there, even though they are not 18. Justify this as best suits your character: your parents might have an account they let you use, or you use your older sibling's account, or you got co-signed by your legal guardian. You can also feel free to treat any transactions at WWs as being totally OOC. That's up to you.
However, please do not equate your in-game success at Wentworth's as in-character success. Yes, you might have defeated a critter and gotten a Deific Weapon, and yes, you might have gone and sold it for a million Influence at WWs. But no, no, a thousand times no-- your character did not just sell a priceless sword you found on a thug, and no, you cannot now afford a Ferrari and a trip to Cancun.
Wentworth's is the one place where the concept of "Influence" breaks down (see the Influence post). It's not money, but at WWs, it sure feels like it. So please, gloss over the vast quantities of Influence that flow through Wentworth's. Assume it's like eBay: yes, you can make a little extra coin by selling your possessions, but let's all just assume that you cannot make a genuine living doing so.
Wentworth's is a highly successful consignment house with many stores in Paragon City. For ease of the setting, it is assumed that students can buy and sell there, even though they are not 18. Justify this as best suits your character: your parents might have an account they let you use, or you use your older sibling's account, or you got co-signed by your legal guardian. You can also feel free to treat any transactions at WWs as being totally OOC. That's up to you.
However, please do not equate your in-game success at Wentworth's as in-character success. Yes, you might have defeated a critter and gotten a Deific Weapon, and yes, you might have gone and sold it for a million Influence at WWs. But no, no, a thousand times no-- your character did not just sell a priceless sword you found on a thug, and no, you cannot now afford a Ferrari and a trip to Cancun.
Wentworth's is the one place where the concept of "Influence" breaks down (see the Influence post). It's not money, but at WWs, it sure feels like it. So please, gloss over the vast quantities of Influence that flow through Wentworth's. Assume it's like eBay: yes, you can make a little extra coin by selling your possessions, but let's all just assume that you cannot make a genuine living doing so.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Influence and Money
The day-to-day commerce that a player experiences in City of Heroes does not use money, it uses Influence. When you save a guy from getting mugged, he doesn't hand over his pocket change. He builds your reputation in Paragon City, which translates into Influence. When you go into a store, you don't hand over cash. The shopkeeper recognizes your "street cred" and helps you out. That's right-- all those SOs you got were free. But when the store forks them over to you, word gets around, and your reputation can only carry you so far. That's why your Influence goes up and down. You have to keep on building your fame to keep getting free stuff.
So what about a hot dog? Or a smoothie? Or dinner at El Super Mexicano?
Well, for that you will need good old American greenbacks. And you can have as many of those as is reasonable for your character to have. If your character is rich, you're all set. If you're on scholarship, you'd better put in a few extra hours at your student job at the cloakroom or in the laundry or in the cafeteria. Or maybe you can save up some money from your allowance that you get every week.
In short, don't confuse Influence and money. Influence is a game mechanic. Money is a roleplaying detail.
Note: the only place where this breaks down is at Wentworth's. The line between Influence and cash gets really blurry. See the Wentworth's post for details of how you might handle this.
The day-to-day commerce that a player experiences in City of Heroes does not use money, it uses Influence. When you save a guy from getting mugged, he doesn't hand over his pocket change. He builds your reputation in Paragon City, which translates into Influence. When you go into a store, you don't hand over cash. The shopkeeper recognizes your "street cred" and helps you out. That's right-- all those SOs you got were free. But when the store forks them over to you, word gets around, and your reputation can only carry you so far. That's why your Influence goes up and down. You have to keep on building your fame to keep getting free stuff.
So what about a hot dog? Or a smoothie? Or dinner at El Super Mexicano?
Well, for that you will need good old American greenbacks. And you can have as many of those as is reasonable for your character to have. If your character is rich, you're all set. If you're on scholarship, you'd better put in a few extra hours at your student job at the cloakroom or in the laundry or in the cafeteria. Or maybe you can save up some money from your allowance that you get every week.
In short, don't confuse Influence and money. Influence is a game mechanic. Money is a roleplaying detail.
Note: the only place where this breaks down is at Wentworth's. The line between Influence and cash gets really blurry. See the Wentworth's post for details of how you might handle this.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Vanguard.
The Vanguard is a paramilitary organization funded by the United Nations. It does the day-to-day job of fighting back the Rikti and spearheading negotiations with the Rikti minority that wants to reach a peace accord with Earth. Vanguard fights every day to keep the war contained. They do not let children join their military hierarchy.
So what about that "join the Vanguard" story arc?
This once again relates to the whole Security Level issue. Will the Vanguard turn away the assistance of someone with an SL of 40? No, they need all the help they can get. But if that person also happens to be 16 years old, then they are bound by the laws under which they operate. The fact that your character carries a Security Clearance gets you into places and gives you the choice to risk your life for justice. But the Vanguard cannot draft you, nor can you join up-- it's simply out of the question. You can work with them, but you cannot work for them.
If it serves your character needs, just imagine that the story arc is called "help the Vanguard."
The Vanguard is a paramilitary organization funded by the United Nations. It does the day-to-day job of fighting back the Rikti and spearheading negotiations with the Rikti minority that wants to reach a peace accord with Earth. Vanguard fights every day to keep the war contained. They do not let children join their military hierarchy.
So what about that "join the Vanguard" story arc?
This once again relates to the whole Security Level issue. Will the Vanguard turn away the assistance of someone with an SL of 40? No, they need all the help they can get. But if that person also happens to be 16 years old, then they are bound by the laws under which they operate. The fact that your character carries a Security Clearance gets you into places and gives you the choice to risk your life for justice. But the Vanguard cannot draft you, nor can you join up-- it's simply out of the question. You can work with them, but you cannot work for them.
If it serves your character needs, just imagine that the story arc is called "help the Vanguard."
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Ouroboros.
The Menders have come to Paragon City to save us. Just ask them. And students at SJS can indeed sign on with them to help correct problems in the timeline. Since they're not Hero Corps or the Vanguard, the Menders have no legal barriers to accepting a 16 year-old into their ranks. However, there are a few things worth remembering about the Menders, and time travel in general.
If you want to bend your head around time travel some more, you can visit this thread.
Thanks to Cryogene for those great bullet points. They sum things up really nicely.
The Menders have come to Paragon City to save us. Just ask them. And students at SJS can indeed sign on with them to help correct problems in the timeline. Since they're not Hero Corps or the Vanguard, the Menders have no legal barriers to accepting a 16 year-old into their ranks. However, there are a few things worth remembering about the Menders, and time travel in general.
- The Menders are in charge of time travel (through Ouroboros, anyway).
- The Menders are sworn to use it only to correct history after others have meddled in it. Hence the name.
- The Menders are not going to let you use the facilities for reasons other than #2 either.
- If you try to time travel through some method other than Ouroboros, the Menders may well come through and correct what you did, assuming they find out about it.
If you want to bend your head around time travel some more, you can visit this thread.
Thanks to Cryogene for those great bullet points. They sum things up really nicely.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Missions: The Contact Web.
The contact web is a delicate subject. On the one hand, the majority of the web is filled with great adventures that mesh nicely into the SJS experience. On the other, the contact web occasionally puts characters at the center of world-wide conspiracies or against enemies that far exceed what you might expect a 16 year-old to be tackling.
So are the missions of the contact web compatible with SJS canon?
For the vast majority of missions and arcs from the Contact Web, the answer is an easy “yes,” because the vast majority of those missions are repeatable as opposed to being unique. In fact, levels 5 through 35 of the web suggest that implicitly, since multiple contacts can give the very same story arc. There’s really no problem in believing that SJS students have foiled Council plots or thwarted Doctor Vahzilok’s plans to infect the water supply. There’s always a Council plot and Doctor Vahzilok is constantly trying to perfect his deadly wasting disease. Those sorts of stories aren’t world-altering and it’s reasonable to think of many SJS students having shared the experience, even at different times.
However, at various points in the web (and especially at the 35-50 range), the story arcs start changing in their tone to become Earth-shattering. Arcs like “World Wide Red” or “The Terra Conspiracy” can logically only happen once.
When considering whether missions from the contact web should be IC, just remember: if your character claims to have done something, and someone else responds that they have also done that thing, does it make sense? If it doesn’t, then there’s a problem. Two different SJS could both have broken up a gang war between the Skulls and the Hellions-- the gangs probably rumble all the time. It’s more difficult for two different SJS students to have banished the Envoy of Shadows, but it’s not out of the question-- the Circle of Thorns could try to summon it again. But it’s virtually impossible for two different SJS students to have arrested Countess Crey and toppled the Crey Corporation-- global corporations only tend to topple once.
To learn more about this issue, see the posts on Task Forces and Trials, Missions: Zone, and Contacts.
The contact web is a delicate subject. On the one hand, the majority of the web is filled with great adventures that mesh nicely into the SJS experience. On the other, the contact web occasionally puts characters at the center of world-wide conspiracies or against enemies that far exceed what you might expect a 16 year-old to be tackling.
So are the missions of the contact web compatible with SJS canon?
For the vast majority of missions and arcs from the Contact Web, the answer is an easy “yes,” because the vast majority of those missions are repeatable as opposed to being unique. In fact, levels 5 through 35 of the web suggest that implicitly, since multiple contacts can give the very same story arc. There’s really no problem in believing that SJS students have foiled Council plots or thwarted Doctor Vahzilok’s plans to infect the water supply. There’s always a Council plot and Doctor Vahzilok is constantly trying to perfect his deadly wasting disease. Those sorts of stories aren’t world-altering and it’s reasonable to think of many SJS students having shared the experience, even at different times.
However, at various points in the web (and especially at the 35-50 range), the story arcs start changing in their tone to become Earth-shattering. Arcs like “World Wide Red” or “The Terra Conspiracy” can logically only happen once.
When considering whether missions from the contact web should be IC, just remember: if your character claims to have done something, and someone else responds that they have also done that thing, does it make sense? If it doesn’t, then there’s a problem. Two different SJS could both have broken up a gang war between the Skulls and the Hellions-- the gangs probably rumble all the time. It’s more difficult for two different SJS students to have banished the Envoy of Shadows, but it’s not out of the question-- the Circle of Thorns could try to summon it again. But it’s virtually impossible for two different SJS students to have arrested Countess Crey and toppled the Crey Corporation-- global corporations only tend to topple once.
To learn more about this issue, see the posts on Task Forces and Trials, Missions: Zone, and Contacts.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Missions: Zone
Unlike the majority of missions in the Contact Web, many zone-specific missions are troublesome to play in character. Whether it’s getting a loose nuke in Warburg, or the Croatoa story arcs, zone missions can be tough to justify, because many of the zone missions involve storylines that should logically only happen once.
Many of the zone story arcs themselves will give you a “hint” in their mission text if it’s reasonable to play it IC—which is to say, whether the arc is repeatable or if it is unique. For instance, in Kelly Nemmer’s arc in Croatoa, the player does not actually stop the final battle between the Firbolg and Tuatha (no matter what the mission is called), and Kelly tells you so in your final meeting with her: “I believe that if heroes continue to stop the battles between the Tuatha and the Fir Bolg, we ghosts will eventually be freed,” she tells you (emphasis mine).
In general, just remember: if your character claims to have done something, and someone else responds that they have also done that thing, does it make sense? If it doesn’t, then there’s a problem. Two different SJS characters might have delivered vital supplies to a Longbow installation in Bloody Bay—Longbow and Arachnos are locked into a persistent struggle. It’s also reasonable for two different students to have run the Hollows story arcs (at least up until the Cavern Trial itself)—Flux, Julius, and Lt. Wincott are battling every day to reclaim the area. But there’s only one PsychoChronoMetron in Faultline (in fact, the mission success text reads “The PsychoChronoMetron is destroyed, and can never be rebuilt.”), and so it’s simply not possible for two different SJS students to have destroyed it at two different times.
To learn more about this issue, see the posts on Task Forces and Trials, and Missions: The Contact Web.
Unlike the majority of missions in the Contact Web, many zone-specific missions are troublesome to play in character. Whether it’s getting a loose nuke in Warburg, or the Croatoa story arcs, zone missions can be tough to justify, because many of the zone missions involve storylines that should logically only happen once.
Many of the zone story arcs themselves will give you a “hint” in their mission text if it’s reasonable to play it IC—which is to say, whether the arc is repeatable or if it is unique. For instance, in Kelly Nemmer’s arc in Croatoa, the player does not actually stop the final battle between the Firbolg and Tuatha (no matter what the mission is called), and Kelly tells you so in your final meeting with her: “I believe that if heroes continue to stop the battles between the Tuatha and the Fir Bolg, we ghosts will eventually be freed,” she tells you (emphasis mine).
In general, just remember: if your character claims to have done something, and someone else responds that they have also done that thing, does it make sense? If it doesn’t, then there’s a problem. Two different SJS characters might have delivered vital supplies to a Longbow installation in Bloody Bay—Longbow and Arachnos are locked into a persistent struggle. It’s also reasonable for two different students to have run the Hollows story arcs (at least up until the Cavern Trial itself)—Flux, Julius, and Lt. Wincott are battling every day to reclaim the area. But there’s only one PsychoChronoMetron in Faultline (in fact, the mission success text reads “The PsychoChronoMetron is destroyed, and can never be rebuilt.”), and so it’s simply not possible for two different SJS students to have destroyed it at two different times.
To learn more about this issue, see the posts on Task Forces and Trials, and Missions: The Contact Web.
Re: CoX Canon vs. SJS Canon
Issues (Game Updates)
By and large, we try to play the actual events connected with new Issues in character. We might think they’re unwieldy, or too over-the-top, or sometimes even silly—but the game canon is the game canon, and so it’s been in our own best interests to not fight against it.
So, is Lord Recluse really tampering with timespace? Yes, he is. Did the Rikti really launch a second invasion? Yes, they did. Did Dr. Brainstorm really build a machine that fundamentally altered the way people’s powers could manifest? With a sorry shake of our collective head, yes, he did. Does the Midnight Squad have a magical portal to ancient Rome? Yes, they do.
This is not the same as treating the features of new Issues as IC. Many of them conflict with the setting of SJS, so we fudge them. Examples like “day jobs” or “joining the Vanguard” or “crafting inventions” are good examples of things that usually need to be handled OOC by members of Saint Joe’s. If a feature of an Issue is particularly disruptive, it will appear in this thread.
Each coming Issue is discussed by the membership before it is released, and decisions about specific elements of the Issue or new game features are reached. Members should keep an eye on the Out Of Character forums to join in on these discussions.
By and large, we try to play the actual events connected with new Issues in character. We might think they’re unwieldy, or too over-the-top, or sometimes even silly—but the game canon is the game canon, and so it’s been in our own best interests to not fight against it.
So, is Lord Recluse really tampering with timespace? Yes, he is. Did the Rikti really launch a second invasion? Yes, they did. Did Dr. Brainstorm really build a machine that fundamentally altered the way people’s powers could manifest? With a sorry shake of our collective head, yes, he did. Does the Midnight Squad have a magical portal to ancient Rome? Yes, they do.
This is not the same as treating the features of new Issues as IC. Many of them conflict with the setting of SJS, so we fudge them. Examples like “day jobs” or “joining the Vanguard” or “crafting inventions” are good examples of things that usually need to be handled OOC by members of Saint Joe’s. If a feature of an Issue is particularly disruptive, it will appear in this thread.
Each coming Issue is discussed by the membership before it is released, and decisions about specific elements of the Issue or new game features are reached. Members should keep an eye on the Out Of Character forums to join in on these discussions.